control arm relocation brackets

by dynchel Tue May 27, 2014 8:00 am

I finally got my '74 down to my buddy's shop and had him weld on my PMT relocation brackets (to try to cure a bad case of wheel hop) everything I have read said that stock height cars should be in the higher setting, and lowered cars should be in the lower setting. We installed in the higher setting, it made a huge improvement, but not 100%. gone. We would have tried the lower setting, but that would put the sway bar on the ground. After looking at it for a while I think I may be able to put the arms in the lowest setting, and mount the sway bar to the top of the arms through the window made by the brackets.
control arm relocation brackets IMG_20140525_172832927_HDR_zpstldylw9b

control arm relocation brackets IMG_20140525_172832927_HDR_zpstldylw9b

any thoughts as to weather or not that is a bad idea. Razz

by Joe73 Tue May 27, 2014 9:18 am

That sway bar is getting pretty low. From what Ive.always.read, the more.horizontal the.lower.arm, the less.chance of.wheel hop.

by dynchel Tue May 27, 2014 9:31 am

Joe73 wrote:That sway bar is getting pretty low. From what Ive.always.read, the more.horizontal the.lower.arm, the less.chance of.wheel hop.

I am getting mixed opinions about what works, i've read that if the rear is lower it changes the instant center which forces the rear end down...and it did make a big improvement. I'm pretty sure the bar can be mounted to the top of the arms, but it will be a few days until i will have time to try.

by bracketchev1221 Tue May 27, 2014 12:32 pm

It will change the instant center by lowering the rear of the bar. But it is harder to control that way. Generally the better way is to keep the bottom bar parallel to the ground and raise the rear of the upper bar. You have 2 parts to look at for an instant center, or imaginary point of intersection. Either way will move the imaginary point of intersection back in the car. But one leaves the point low in the car in line with the lower bar like a weld in ladder bar, while the other puts that intersection point high in the car. The idea of lowering the rear of the lower bar was used by the old Southside Machine bars, but was not widely accepted becasue the bars were hard to control. The SSM bars would hit the tire so hard that the tire would compress and act like a spring and then unload themselves. Usually an adjustable shock that can control the compression is needed to slow the rebound of the tire. I ran them on my 70 chevelle and went 1.52-1.53 in 60'. Without changing anything in the suspension other than going to a weld in ladder bar and moving the intersection point to be lower in the car, the car went to 1.45-1.46 in 60'.

by dynchel Tue May 27, 2014 12:37 pm

So if i'm understanding correctly it is ok to try the lower hole, but it will be harder to control? For now i am trying to make do with what i have.

by 77mali Tue May 27, 2014 12:59 pm

dynchel wrote:So if i'm understanding correctly it is ok to try the lower hole, but it will be harder to control? For now i am trying to make do with what i have.

That's what she said ...
lol!

sorry couldn't resist. I'm a dirty old man!

by dynchel Tue May 27, 2014 1:00 pm

lol. i hadn't even thought of that... Razz

by 77mali Tue May 27, 2014 1:02 pm

Pardon my ignorance but isn't the center "bend" of the swaybar supposed to go up towards the diff cover?

by dynchel Tue May 27, 2014 1:20 pm

77mali wrote:Pardon my ignorance but isn't the center "bend" of the swaybar supposed to go up towards the diff cover?

I'm not sure what you mean...The bar is lower than it should be because it is mounted to the control arms that are now lower than stock. If it was a full shot you would be able to see that the bar follows the shape of the rear end. I plan to try to remedy this by mounting the bar to the top of the control arms.

by 1973 454 MONTE Tue May 27, 2014 4:29 pm

ive never had a problem with wheel hop in any of the 73-77 montes ive owned.

i did have a problem once in a 81 monte with a 350. i put skinnier tires on it and it stopped. scratch

maybe you should lay off the ledfoot for awhile. GoFast

by 77mali Tue May 27, 2014 5:47 pm

If you need reference from original equip pics I found this thread on another forum. I bought a factory sway bar a while back. There are a few threads on here as well that deal w/ your specific swap. Pics are toward the bottom of the page.

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=387733

by dynchel Tue May 27, 2014 6:08 pm

Thanks Mali, but I have aftermarket arms, that I am using with a impala sway bar, with relocation brackets. How it was originally doesn't help me much, I just have to figure out the combo that works best for my needs (and budget)

by jerry46765 Tue May 27, 2014 9:22 pm

If you are trying to solve wheel hop, the sway bar does nothing for straight line acceleration. Take it off, figure out what settings resolve the wheel hop. Real stiff shocks will promote hop too. Once sorted out then get sway bar back on.

by Joe73 Tue May 27, 2014 9:30 pm

jerry46765 wrote:If you are trying to solve wheel hop, the sway bar does nothing for straight line acceleration. Take it off, figure out what settings resolve the wheel hop. Real stiff shocks will promote hop too. Once sorted out then get sway bar back on.

X2. It was always a shock issue for me.

by dynchel Tue May 27, 2014 9:39 pm

I have 19 year old Monroe sensatracs so I doubt they are too "stiff". Since the brackets made it way better (probably 90%) better I'm hopeing adjusting it down will cure it completely.

by bracketchev1221 Wed May 28, 2014 7:54 am

The sway bar is not your problem. I went 10.50's with my Chevelle with a stock sway bar on it. On a stock 4 link suspension car, when the car leaves the starting line the natural tendnecy is to suck the passenger side tire up in to the wheel well, and drive the drivers side into the ground. A sway bar helps to resist this though the stock diameter is not enough to eliminate it. If you look into aftermarket Anti Roll Bars, they are just fancy sway bars attempting to keep the lower control arms parallel to each other. This is how the air bag in the passenger side spring and the Moroso trick springs with a stiffer passenger side spring came into being. They are all attempts to keep the car from body rolling on the rear.

by dynchel Wed May 28, 2014 8:16 am

Baseline suspension has a nice article "how to launch your drag car". So Ray do you think dropping to the lower holes would be OK? My car makes maybe 300 horse (if that)

by bracketchev1221 Wed May 28, 2014 9:41 am

Since it is what you have, try dropping the back of the lower bar. Just be sure to check your pinion angle after you are done to ensure it hasn't changed the arc length on the rear. The holes should be drilled to prevent this. But be sure.

by dynchel Wed May 28, 2014 9:49 am

OK thank you. It doesn't seem the lower arms affect the pinion angle, but better safe than sorry.

by dynchel Wed May 28, 2014 9:49 am

Thank you everyone who responded. Very Happy

by dynchel Fri May 30, 2014 1:44 pm

dynchel wrote:I finally got my '74 down to my buddy's shop and had him weld on my PMT relocation brackets (to try to cure a bad case of wheel hop) everything I have read said that stock height cars should be in the higher setting, and lowered cars should be in the lower setting. We installed in the higher setting, it made a huge improvement, but not 100%. gone. We would have tried the lower setting, but that would put the sway bar on the ground. After looking at it for a while I think I may be able to put the arms in the lowest setting, and mount the sway bar to the top of the arms through the window made by the brackets.

any thoughts as to weather or not that is a bad idea.

control arm relocation brackets IMG_20140529_172116888_zpsfoaf2vmy

Well i did what i said i wanted to try, dropped to the lower holes and mounted the bar to the top of the arms. While it didn't fix all my wheel hop i did notice a major improvement in handling. While this might be specific to my setup specifically i figured i'd mention it. I am assuming the bar does a better job mounted to the top? IDK but for the record my setup includes, PMT fabrication control arms & relocation brackets with the arms in the lowest setting. Global west frame supports, and a 1995 impala SS sway bar mounted to the top of the arms. New shocks are next.

by 77mali Fri May 30, 2014 6:07 pm

That install looks good to me. Nice job (now get under there and show the lower arms connection) LOL. I like those arms are they expensive?

by dynchel Fri May 30, 2014 6:11 pm

They were $280.00 on ebay., but you can buy them direct from PMT for about the same price. I really cannot believe how much better it handles... Just jerk the wheel a little and it responds. It was never like that before.

by 77mali Fri May 30, 2014 6:17 pm

I'll check it out- Thanks!

by dynchel Fri May 30, 2014 6:34 pm

Your welcome, just remember the relocation brackets are what allows the adjustment & they have to be welded on.

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