need help deciding something

bigredlaguna wrote:

Malicruiser wrote:

bigredlaguna wrote:I would go for this rotating assembly for a 383

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-1-92005-1/

Heads- if you want new.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NAL-12558060/

Some one around here could probably cut you a deal for some used heads, but you may have machine shop costs that would be close to the same as new heads.

One of these manifolds

http://www.summitracing.com/compare.aspx

One of these cams

http://www.summitracing.com/compare.aspx

One of these carburetors. 750 may be too big, but a 383 might need it anyway, even with a small cam.

http://www.summitracing.com/compare.aspx

I think for what your goals are, that a properly rebuilt Quadrajet would be perfect.

If you can locate a 90-93 700r4 (these were built with much stronger and much improved internals than earlier years) you can swap one into your malibu, that way you have overdrive for even better mileage and it bolts straight to a 350 block. If you need to shorten you drive shaft already, you can have it shortened for the 700r4 instead for no extra money. Plus the 700r4 should fit right in your car, and is almost as easily and cheaply built as a th350. Trust me I've built a couple of them, they're almost bullet-proof and were built in very large numbers. As a cherry on top they use the yokes already in your car.

A 2004r has some advantages also.
1) Same length as a th350- no need to shorten a driveshaft or change the location of the crossmember, but it does use a 400 style yoke.
2) Gear ratios are the same as a th400 with the benefit of a 0.67/1 overdrive.
3) Most cases had a dual pattern bellhouse so you can use Chevy or BOP engines.

Your absolutely right, but I cost a great deal more to make a 2004r strong enough to handle the torque of even a mildly built 383 (not to mention just how big of a car we are talking about) that you can almost build two 700r4s. The 2004r had stamped cages for the planetary gears while the 700r4 had much beefier cases, plus it's much easier & cheaper to snag a 700r4 (at least around here) than it is for a 2004r. Don't get me wrong, you can build the 2004r to handle just as much power as the 700r4. But it cost so much to do that it's just smarter to go with the 700r4 unless you just don't have the space, wich these cars are not lacking in.

there is actually a write up in one of the rags of cars out there it shows how to build a bullet proof 2004R on the cheap side of life..............

Limey wrote:there is actually a write up in one of the rags of cars out there it shows how to build a bullet proof 2004R on the cheap side of life..............

$600 Cheap? Not including purchase of the trans.

bigredlaguna wrote:

Malicruiser wrote:

bigredlaguna wrote:I would go for this rotating assembly for a 383

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-1-92005-1/

Heads- if you want new.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NAL-12558060/

Some one around here could probably cut you a deal for some used heads, but you may have machine shop costs that would be close to the same as new heads.

One of these manifolds

http://www.summitracing.com/compare.aspx

One of these cams

http://www.summitracing.com/compare.aspx

One of these carburetors. 750 may be too big, but a 383 might need it anyway, even with a small cam.

http://www.summitracing.com/compare.aspx

I think for what your goals are, that a properly rebuilt Quadrajet would be perfect.

If you can locate a 90-93 700r4 (these were built with much stronger and much improved internals than earlier years) you can swap one into your malibu, that way you have overdrive for even better mileage and it bolts straight to a 350 block. If you need to shorten you drive shaft already, you can have it shortened for the 700r4 instead for no extra money. Plus the 700r4 should fit right in your car, and is almost as easily and cheaply built as a th350. Trust me I've built a couple of them, they're almost bullet-proof and were built in very large numbers. As a cherry on top they use the yokes already in your car.

A 2004r has some advantages also.
1) Same length as a th350- no need to shorten a driveshaft or change the location of the crossmember, but it does use a 400 style yoke.
2) Gear ratios are the same as a th400 with the benefit of a 0.67/1 overdrive.
3) Most cases had a dual pattern bellhouse so you can use Chevy or BOP engines.

big red i like your idea plus there is one near me i can snag for 50 bucks!

Limey wrote:there is actually a write up in one of the rags of cars out there it shows how to build a bullet proof 2004R on the cheap side of life..............

Where's the write up at? I would actually like to read it, and see if it's like a lot of other 2004r builds wich use parts from 700r4's to make as strong as the 700r4. Could you post a link?

let me think where its at ........

Limey wrote:let me think where its at ........

I know it's on this site somewhere, but I'm having some trouble finding it.

yeah i would like to know too

no it wasn't on site but here it is from the mag I have it bookmarked

http://cpttransmission.com/

thanks limey this helps out i am going to call the guy about that trans tomorrow i am likeing this idea i read up on the trans and its basically the same as a 400 but what is the difference between a 400 and 200r4

OH! LOL! I know that build! Trust me it's still WAY cheaper to build the 700r4 in this case. The rpm drop isn't enough to warrent the money spent, and that's definately not a "on the cheap" build. If you REALLY can't stand the little rpm drop you can bye a 1-2 planetary with improved ratios.

The 2004r won't be cheaper to modify, but it is more of a direct bolt-in so you won't have to modify the car to install.

That said, the OP wanted this build on the cheaper side of things, so I say keep the 350 or 400 transmission especially if he still has the factory axle gear ratio of 2.73 or 2.56. The 383 or even a nicely built 350 will have the nuts to move the car quickly and still get reasonable fuel mileage.

bigredlaguna wrote:The 2004r won't be cheaper to modify, but it is more of a direct bolt-in so you won't have to modify the car to install.

That said, the OP wanted this build on the cheaper side of things, so I say keep the 350 or 400 transmission especially if he still has the factory axle gear ratio of 2.73 or 2.56. The 383 or even a nicely built 350 will have the nuts to move the car quickly and still get reasonable fuel mileage.

I agree, but the 700 is the trans that was based on the 400, not the 200. JB

Where to start........

400 vs 350. 400 makes WAY more power & has a lot more potential. You're looking at 50 extra cubes from the get go. Screw a 383 if you can get your hands on a 400. Only a nutcase would recommend downgrading the cubic inches.

$150 for a bare 350 block is too much money. Try knocking off $75-100 from that price unless you like to toss money away. Of course I wouldn't recommend buying a bare block period & I'm surprised someone hasn't already brought up the fact that since you are a first timer with no experience, you should buy a complete motor even if it's seized. That way you don't have to deal with tracking down a crank, main caps, having it lined bored, etc. Bare blocks usually scare me about a possible cracked block. Why else would everything have been stripped? I bought a complete running 350 minus intake & accessories for $200. Usually complete 400s can be found for no more than $350-$400 if you look around.

Forget those overweight 700r4's & buy a 200-4r or stick with the TH350. 700's are truck transmissions, lol. Yes the gear drop is noticeable, at least to me. It was actually annoying at times..... but good for towing & stuff I guess, if you're into that. 200-4r's CAN take abuse. They were placed behind Buick GNX's & most of those guys thrash on theirs. 200-4r for $600 including buying price? Yeah, how about the 700r4, same deal? Give me $1,000 & both transmissions. Not only will the 200 fit in our cars better, be lighter, & have better gear ratios, but it will be stronger! Take that to the bank. Better check your torque ratings for both transmissions. Replace the weak input shaft on the 200 & it will stand next to a 700 no problem. IT'S WAY CHEAPER TO BUILD A 200!

Two more things.

1) 200-4r gear ratios are not the same as any other transmission. Check here for ratios, cause I'm too lazy to type them in. http://www.vibratesoftware.com/html_help/html/GM/gm_transmissions.htm

2)4L80e was the transmission based off of the TH400.

ok so i am thinking of going with the cheap way out and swapping the 350/350 out of my elky to the malibu once i get the floors fixed

tell me what i could do to make it the way i am wanting it please?!



btw on this motor it sounds like a valve is tapping or something on the pass side i forget what valve number it is
when i tighten the header up real tight it quiets down a lot but can still hear it, i dont know anything about this kind of stuff so can anywone help on this too

first i am thinking of switching out my 4bbl edelbrock with a 2 bbl carb
and second i thknk i should save more money cus the malibu is lighter and has a 19 gallon tank instead of a 26 gallon gas tank what gear ratio should i go with for the rear end right now it is stock

limey back to what you said about donating the driveshaft how much would it cost to ship to florida with something of that size
and do you know if its for a malibu/laguna yet? or what the measurements are

Your headers may be warped, that will cause a funny noise like you describe. JB

nooooooo
lol how do i fix this dont tell me new headers!

Rago wrote:Where to start........

400 vs 350. 400 makes WAY more power & has a lot more potential. You're looking at 50 extra cubes from the get go. Screw a 383 if you can get your hands on a 400. Only a nutcase would recommend downgrading the cubic inches.

$150 for a bare 350 block is too much money. Try knocking off $75-100 from that price unless you like to toss money away. Of course I wouldn't recommend buying a bare block period & I'm surprised someone hasn't already brought up the fact that since you are a first timer with no experience, you should buy a complete motor even if it's seized. That way you don't have to deal with tracking down a crank, main caps, having it lined bored, etc. Bare blocks usually scare me about a possible cracked block. Why else would everything have been stripped? I bought a complete running 350 minus intake & accessories for $200. Usually complete 400s can be found for no more than $350-$400 if you look around.

Forget those overweight 700r4's & buy a 200-4r or stick with the TH350. 700's are truck transmissions, lol. Yes the gear drop is noticeable, at least to me. It was actually annoying at times..... but good for towing & stuff I guess, if you're into that. 200-4r's CAN take abuse. They were placed behind Buick GNX's & most of those guys thrash on theirs. 200-4r for $600 including buying price? Yeah, how about the 700r4, same deal? Give me $1,000 & both transmissions. Not only will the 200 fit in our cars better, be lighter, & have better gear ratios, but it will be stronger! Take that to the bank. Better check your torque ratings for both transmissions. Replace the weak input shaft on the 200 & it will stand next to a 700 no problem. IT'S WAY CHEAPER TO BUILD A 200!

Two more things.

1) 200-4r gear ratios are not the same as any other transmission. Check here for ratios, cause I'm too lazy to type them in. http://www.vibratesoftware.com/html_help/html/GM/gm_transmissions.htm

2)4L80e was the transmission based off of the TH400.

I just dropped a 700r4 in the Laguna, and i'll tell you why.

1- I couldn't even FIND a 200-4r around here for less than 500 smackers, and that needed a re-build.

2- 700r4s are laying around everywhere, I bought a re-built 1990 something 700r4 for $600 bucks, That included a torque converter and shipping from Fla.

3. Pretty much dropped right in after we cut and balanced the shaft, moved the crossmember back ibto the 400 mounting holes.

4. If, or when, I blow it all to heck, easy and cheap to fix and replace.

I really liked the idea of the 200, but the 700 was just much nicer budget-wise and much more convenient to fix or replace.

on the headers could be just blown gasket if warped get thicker gasket like from ROL

dragons_lair59 wrote:on the headers could be just blown gasket if warped get thicker gasket like from ROL

its actually one of those thin metal ones
should i get a rubber gasket

and i just recent ly changed them too
it also gave me the circle ones for the other end of the headers

wait its actually like a cardboard material lol

These are probably what you are running for exhaust gaskets.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEL-MS9275B/

To get a better seal run something like these

http://www.summitracing.com/compare.aspx

no they are all one piece gaskets
and the second link doesnt work for me

Roadcaptain S3 wrote:

Rago wrote:Where to start........

400 vs 350. 400 makes WAY more power & has a lot more potential. You're looking at 50 extra cubes from the get go. Screw a 383 if you can get your hands on a 400. Only a nutcase would recommend downgrading the cubic inches.

$150 for a bare 350 block is too much money. Try knocking off $75-100 from that price unless you like to toss money away. Of course I wouldn't recommend buying a bare block period & I'm surprised someone hasn't already brought up the fact that since you are a first timer with no experience, you should buy a complete motor even if it's seized. That way you don't have to deal with tracking down a crank, main caps, having it lined bored, etc. Bare blocks usually scare me about a possible cracked block. Why else would everything have been stripped? I bought a complete running 350 minus intake & accessories for $200. Usually complete 400s can be found for no more than $350-$400 if you look around.

Forget those overweight 700r4's & buy a 200-4r or stick with the TH350. 700's are truck transmissions, lol. Yes the gear drop is noticeable, at least to me. It was actually annoying at times..... but good for towing & stuff I guess, if you're into that. 200-4r's CAN take abuse. They were placed behind Buick GNX's & most of those guys thrash on theirs. 200-4r for $600 including buying price? Yeah, how about the 700r4, same deal? Give me $1,000 & both transmissions. Not only will the 200 fit in our cars better, be lighter, & have better gear ratios, but it will be stronger! Take that to the bank. Better check your torque ratings for both transmissions. Replace the weak input shaft on the 200 & it will stand next to a 700 no problem. IT'S WAY CHEAPER TO BUILD A 200!

Two more things.

1) 200-4r gear ratios are not the same as any other transmission. Check here for ratios, cause I'm too lazy to type them in. http://www.vibratesoftware.com/html_help/html/GM/gm_transmissions.htm

2)4L80e was the transmission based off of the TH400.

I just dropped a 700r4 in the Laguna, and i'll tell you why.

1- I couldn't even FIND a 200-4r around here for less than 500 smackers, and that needed a re-build.

2- 700r4s are laying around everywhere, I bought a re-built 1990 something 700r4 for $600 bucks, That included a torque converter and shipping from Fla.

3. Pretty much dropped right in after we cut and balanced the shaft, moved the crossmember back ibto the 400 mounting holes.

4. If, or when, I blow it all to heck, easy and cheap to fix and replace.

I really liked the idea of the 200, but the 700 was just much nicer budget-wise and much more convenient to fix or replace.

Thank you Roadcaptain! That's the very point I've been going for. It's not that 200s' are bad transmisions, they definately have their advantages over some aspects of the 700r4. It's just that for a true working class budget, lets say $750 - $850 for the entire overdrive swap, the 700 is just a way more realistic option. I figured it was the wise choice to make for this paticular engine/trans swap because of the working budget. If you do have a way of getting a 200-4r that's had a performance rebuild for close to the same price then god bless yea! I just have not seen such a thing yet.